Thrio is, you guessed it, a trio (“. . . because there’s three of them!”) featuring Andrew Berinson on piano, Donovan Cheatham on drums, and Paul Creel on bass. They released the group’s first album, Volume 1, in fall 2022. This interview was recorded on September 23, 2022, before Thrio’s performance at the Sharp Nine Gallery in Durham through the Durham Jazz Workshop (DJW).
Thrio is, you guessed it, a trio (“. . . because there’s three of them!”) featuring Andrew Berinson on piano, Donovan Cheatham on drums, and Paul Creel on bass. They released the group’s first album, Volume 1, in fall 2022. This interview was recorded on September 23, 2022, before Thrio’s performance at the Sharp Nine Gallery in Durham through the Durham Jazz Workshop.
You can catch Thrio next at the Bond Brothers Eastside in Cary, North Carolina, every Thursday this October.
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About the venue
The Durham Jazz Workshop (DJW) is a nonprofit dedicated to keeping jazz alive in North Carolina through educational programs and live performances. The DJW operates more than 50 concerts per year at the gallery, featuring local artists and regional and national performers.
Music credits
This episode features the songs “Forged in Rhythm” and “Callous & Kind” by Keenan McKenzie & The Riffers (2017), used by Six Count with permission from the artist.
Special thanks
We’re grateful to our episode guests; to Keenan McKenzie for contributing music to the show; to Dave Finucane, co-founder and director of the Durham Jazz Workshop, for helping make this interview happen at the Sharp Nine Gallery; to Peter Burke of Locavore Jazz for keeping the jazz community connected and informed; and to our listeners and supporters.
Photo credit for episode art: Amanda Rudd of Vertex Theory
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Support the show
If you’d like to support Six Count, you can make a gift on DonorBox or Venmo @thexarawilde.
Xara:
Donovan, Andrew, and Paul, thank you all so much for speaking with Six Count this evening. We're here at the Sharp Nine Gallery in Durham for the release of Volume 1, Thrio's first album. So, just to get us started, will each of you share your name and what instrument you play for our listeners?
Paul:
Yeah, I'm Paul Creel and I play upright bass.
Donovan:
Donovan Cheatham, la batterie.
Andrew:
What's up? Andrew Berinson, [I] play the piano.
Xara:
That's wonderful. Thank you all so much for sharing your music and your time with us, and congratulations as well on the launch of Volume 1.
Tonight's event is part of a series of release parties happening throughout the Triangle. I got to see you all at the NorthStar Church of the Arts last weekend, which was wonderful. I'm sure it feels a bit surreal for something you've planned for so long to finally happen. So, tell us about how the early reception has been so far. What have been some highlights?
Andrew:
It's been great. We feel super supported from all our Triangle friends and family. We all, you know, live here, and play here in various capacities, so this is kind of just really an awesome time for people to come and support us, who know us and see us every day. We even have some students who have come out to check us out because we all teach. And we've had some other friends and family coming out. So, it's been good. What do you guys think? Has it been good?
Donovan:
We’re like a community-based band. So, we like to serve our community a lot. And the best way to do it for us is to play the music and play at all our favorite spots around the Triangle. So, it's been awesome to come through as a band, instead of playing with like other projects, you know, so yeah.
Paul:
Yeah, for me, it's just been a real joy to be at a place in my life where I have two brothers that share a vision for this music and that we share a love for one another and that it always comes through on the bandstand. And I also think you can hear it on the record, you know, it really comes through. And I think that's, at least for me, personally, and I think I could speak for all of us, that's the real kind of crowning joy or achievement of the whole thing, is the enjoyment of the process, the camaraderie, and the way it was captured on the record. You know, we're proud of that. And it's beautiful.
Xara:
I love the focus on the local. Six Count is a hyperlocal jazz podcast, and so it's great to hear how building the community and making it for the community is such an emphasis for you all. Doing this release tour of sorts I'm sure has also been a way of getting a bead on the Triangle Region's jazz scene, post pandemic. Are you encouraged by what you've seen? The recent abrupt closure of C. Grace, Raleigh’s one of two speakeasies, was certainly disheartening for me, but there could be some venues that will rise up to fill the void.
Andrew:
The closing of C. Grace was tough. I guess now that it's finally closed, I guess I can say I've been sneaking in there since I was in high school. And, you know, it's definitely sad to see it go. But there's an excellent community of musicians in the area, so as long as there are venues that will support us, there will be music in the triangle.
Yeah, that venue was definitely a stop on the tour. And once we got word that the venue was closing, it was kind of disheartening, but you know, that was one of the first places that I think we all kind of were able to, like, check out the scene and play on and be hired by various people. So that closing is kind of surreal in itself. RIP, C. Grace.
Xara:
I liked as well how it was a true listening room, where the seats were framed towards the band and not, you know, put off in the corner somewhere, which is so often the case for bars. So, that was also one of the sadder points for me.
But I'd love to get back to the album and hear some of the thinking behind it. What was the vision for Volume 1 and what's the story that you're trying to tell with this music?
Paul:
You know, at least for me, I don't think that there was—I think actually it's a little bit alluding back to what I was talking about earlier—that the theme of the music and the theme of the album is our sort of shared story together as musicians and friends as a part of this community. And all the music on there is a representation of that. It's a representation of our musical interests and in all their various forms, and we all have a broad palette of things that we listen to. And so, we're just bringing that to the table and trying to play music that's actually honest and that we enjoy doing. So, that's, I think, at least from my perspective, that's kind of the vision behind the album.
Xara:
Yeah, I'd love to hear about that—your different backgrounds and how those have all contributed in a way to Volume 1.
Andrew:
I grew up in the marching band, did marching band in high school. And so, after high school, I wanted to play drums, and I figured I'd audition for schools, and that brought me to the Triangle, eventually. And I met Andrew at North Carolina Central University. (Shout out to our fellow Eagles who might be listening). Studied jazz there. Took me a while to get out of school, but I prevailed, and now we're here. And yeah, that's Donovan Cheatham's background.
Xara:
Andrew?
Andrew:
I grew up in Raleigh, and I stayed here, you know, since graduating from Enloe. Shout out to Eagle. I'm a double Eagle: Enloe Eagles to North Carolina Central University Eagles. Yeah, I'm from the Triangle, and I ended up staying here and couldn't be happier. You know, Central really formed me in terms of my perspective on playing and what it means to be a jazz musician. North Carolina Central University has Branford Marsalis and Joey Calderazzo as artists-in-residence, as well as when we were there, Dr. Ira Wiggins leading the jazz program there. And that is such a vital kind of heart and lifeblood of the entire jazz community in this region. So, kind of just being a part of that led us to playing all sorts of things, playing with different people. And you know, one thing about this group is, kind of like what Paul was saying, just a sense of, we have a shared vision, we have a shared idea of what we want to do and how we want to do it. And that's the special magic juice for Thrio, you know.
Paul:
Yeah, so my story's a little longer than these dudes because I could almost be their dad. No, I'm just playing. I grew up in Northeast Florida. And, you know, my, well, it's different down there. I grew up listening to rock music, and quite a wide variety of things, all the stuff that was going on in the 90s and came up playing in kind of rock bands and funk bands. And you know, always with an eye towards experimentation and improvisation and see what might happen. And then got into school. I did go to, you know, study some music in school at University of North Florida, which back in the late nineties, there was a whole slew of just amazing musicians there, both on faculty and guys that were coming through, you know, who have since gone on to have awesome careers and studied at Florida State and then moved up here. And here I am still, trying to find some decent notes to play on the bass, you know. Every once in a while, a good one will come out.
Xara:
Well, it's interesting to hear just the diversity of experiences you each have had, but that which has also brought you together. And I'm curious to know, where would you put the album on the spectrum of jazz tradition to experimentation and innovation? And can you also speak to how you balance that tradition with exploration?
Andrew:
In terms of tradition, we're trying to swing, period. I don't know how many jazz records y'all have heard recently, but swing is sometimes hard to find. You know what I'm saying? It's hard. It is, but we're trying to swing, you know what I'm saying? We're talking about having some t-shirts about quarter notes coming out. Because, you know, it's a powerful note, the quarter note. Anyway, but yeah, we're trying to swing and play this music. But then, in terms of innovation, we have a lot of original music on there. We have a couple tunes I wrote, a couple tunes Paul wrote. All the arrangements were kind of formulated between all the people in the band, so we were working together with the sensibilities we have from other genres and from a more modern approach, I guess you could say, or innovative approach, if that's appropriate for how we came up with the arrangements.
Paul:
But you know, part of the jazz tradition, even the question—of how much to adhere to the tradition, or how much to innovate and move forward—I think that idea of being open and creative and innovative has always been a part of the tradition. So I think it's one in the same, not two separate things. So, again, I think we're just trying to play honest music, you know, and listen to one another, and interact. So, of course, there's a tradition that we come out of that has paved the way for us to be able to have a common language for that to happen. Yeah, thank you. But I think it's part of it as well, they're woven together.
Donovan:
Yeah, I think during our studies, we were all kind of, I hate to use the word "trained," but we go through this type of schooling that stresses a tradition. And I think it takes one to like the tradition, you know, to hear it, you know what I'm saying, I love the tradition, and I love the way it sounds, but the band itself, like we're existing in 2022. So, you know, that's the sound that you're getting is, you know, 2022, really. So, yeah.
Xara:
Yeah, a couple of the songs I noticed seem to be a tribute, if that's the right word, in reference to the pandemic. "Pandeemia" and "Alone Together" are the tunes I'm thinking about. As artists and musicians, how do you reconcile or address something as life changing as a global pandemic? And a related question for me is how much of the album is about emergence and reinvention?
Paul:
Oh, man, I think that's a question I'm not qualified to answer. I actually just play the bass. If I'm being real. But no, honestly, the tune "Pandeemia," I think, was a pandemic tune in the sense that it was something I wrote sitting in my piano, you know, late at night, when I wasn't playing much music elsewhere. So, I think the name sort of came by, came around as a joke. The first running joke was that it was a different name every time. It was Pandeemia, Pandillicus, Pandemaggio. That's where we, you know, eventually had to land on something. Yeah, so there's that. I mean, I think as much as the album is our own experience, having lived through that, I think, again, it's just an expression of our own experience. But yeah, that's what I would say.
Donovan:
I think we were fortunate enough to have a couple things going on throughout the pandemic. So, I think that kind of stressed our camaraderie in a good way. The tune, "Alone Together," is a jazz standard, a pretty popular standard, with a pretty odd song form, so we just made it more odd. Yeah, it happens to be called "Alone Together," so, you know, a nod to the pandemic. One of the good things about the pandemic, though, is that it forced us to be alone with our instruments, kind of stripped it down to a primal, intimate level. So, you know, I'm pretty thankful for that. Yeah.
Xara:
And Andrew, I remember you sharing at the NorthStar Church of the Arts in Durham last weekend, that you wrote many of the songs. Every song writer approaches the process a bit differently. So, could you describe how you do this?
Andrew:
Sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm happy when the songs find me and I try to be ready for them when they come. You know, I feel like it's kind of like catching pixie dust with butterfly net, you know, you just got to kind of be ready for it and practice all the time. You know, I tell my students, you know, to check out . . . I think Kenny Werner has some YouTube information, where he's talking about, you know, daring somebody to try to write five bad songs because one of them will end up being good. Beyond that, I think the magic of songwriting is in the editing, you know. It's taking the information you have and distilling it into exactly what you want. You know,
Xara:
And what else, Andrew or Paul or Donovan, do you hope that listeners get out of the album as a listening experience? I also noticed that you have a Herbie Hancock song and a Frank Rosalino tune, "Blue Daniel," 1960, played by the Cannonball Adderley Quintet, first recorded by Shelly Manne & His Men, both from the 1960s. So, I was wondering if I was picking up on a post-bop theme here? These are just both wonderful tunes.
Andrew :
Oh, yeah. You know, you look at that mid-to-late sixties, Coltrane, Cannonball, Miles, are you kidding me? That's like some of the lifeblood of all the music that came after that for jazz musicians. So, digging into that, you know, repertoire is a pleasure.
Donovan:
I just like to think our album is a playlist of songs that we like. I like to tell my students that I teach to find out the things you like, and get into those things, because you will play those things and people will receive those things in a different way because it's genuine, you like them, you genuinely like it. But we just want people to feel joyful when they hear, you know, we want all the good things, you know, it's an offering from us to you also. Thanks for listening.
Xara:
That seems to answer another thing I was curious about, because I was struck by the variety of the album. You have a spiritual, "Amazing Grace," you have Ellis Marsalis's, "Swinging at the Haven," from ’92. And then Andrew, your song, "Find your Way," which has a very different, more modern feel. So, what does this tell us about Thrio?
Paul:
I mean, I think we've already kind of alluded to this previously, but that we all have a wide variety of musical tastes and interests and things that bring us joy. And then, like Don was saying, that this is a compilation of music that we enjoy playing, and that we spent some time getting some mileage on so that we could also play the songs with our own voice and perspective and nuance. And it's just part of our shared experience, I would say.
Xara:
Very cool. And I was speaking with Peter Burke the other day about Thrio, so this next question is actually from him. How does this album fit within your longer plan for Thrio? What's the sort of longer vision here?
Andrew:
Can't have a Volume 1 without Volume 2, you know what I'm saying?
Donovan:
Yeah, stay tuned for Volume 2. I don't want to give it away . . . but we're thinking about making it a feature album, featuring you all.
Xara:
What does that mean?
Donovan:
It will feature some people in the area that we like. Or if we can afford some cameos, we might do that, too. But we'll basically just feature people that we like to play with: vocalist, horn players. Yea.
Xara:
Neat. And can I ask when on the timeline that might be in the works?
Andrew:
I mean, you know . . . you gotta give us a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Volume 1? But you know, we'll see what we can do. Volume 1 was, you know, a joint effort between the three of us to make it happen, and we made it happen, which is a joy and a blessing in and of itself. So, we're, you know, we're excited. But yeah, I mean, well, we hope there'll be a Volume 2. The thing is, we, I mean, I can't speak for everyone . . .
Paul:
"Hope there's going to be a Volume 2?" There's going to be a Volume 2.
Andrew:
There's gonna be a Volume 2. I'm just saying, we enjoy the recording process, you know. We enjoy that act of like, setting something down and being, "Hey, we did this at this moment." You know, some people say recording for posterity, and I think there's a lot to be said for that, you know. We're working as a group, you know, we're doing this. And it's like, this is a snapshot of us in a moment in time.
Paul:
It really is a snapshot. I mean, you think about . . . We really did the record in half of a day, a day, you know. It was just, gosh, what time we get started? I don't know, we had a schedule. You know, we went in there. It was like, we started playing about 10:00? 11:00, maybe? I don't know. We were done by 5:00. That was it. That was the record.
Andrew:
Yeah, it was about six or seven hours.
Xara:
So really, we could look out for Volume 2 tomorrow or something.
Paul:
It could be. We're already writing material. I know I got some tunes.
Andrew:
And I have some tunes, too.
Paul:
I have some tunes. We just, we got to get on the other side of this little Triangle tour and then get back to a rehearsal schedule and so we can work some music out, you know? Yeah.
Xara:
Well, very much looking forward to Volume 2, and [hope] that it comes into fruition, as well as tonight—I know you have a performance to put on. So lastly, where can people find your music or follow along your gigs?
Andrew:
https://www.thriomusic.com. You know, we have our calendar on there, a little bit of information, probably just a few photos of us or other accompanying information, but we have a calendar on there.
Donovan:
Follow us on all the socials but, uh, you can catch us out here in the streets. We're at Bond Brothers Eastside in Cary every Thursday at The Session.
Xara:
And what's "The Session"? A jam session, I presume.
Donovan:
Yeah, it's The Session, where you know, you have the house band, which is us, Thrio, and people come with their instruments, aka their axes. And they come and sit in, and we rejoice in this music, you know, at The Session.
Andrew:
8:00 to 11:00.
Xara:
Also, you mentioned posterity, and I think for posterity's sake we need to hear: why are you named Thrio?
Andrew:
It's like a trio, but there's three of us.
Xara:
So, there it is for all of history. Thank you all so much for speaking with us for Six Count. Is there anything else you'd like to add?
Paul:
No, I don't think so. Thank you for doing the interview and we really appreciate it.
Donovan:
Yeah, yeah, shout out Six Count. Give them a follow.
Andrew:
Okay, okay, we're gonna expect you guys out there at the Thrio show, at the Thrio session. Every Thrio event. Come on, now.
Paul:
Whippersnappers.
Xara:
Thank you.